Some things just make sense. And one of those things is that singer-songwriter and actor Moses Sumney should perform at the Red Hook experimental arts and science space Pioneer Works on a chilly early Spring evening. Last Monday, an intimate audience got to see this dream come to life—a show which Sumney, who recently relocated part-time to New York from North Carolina, almost performed in the South. Lucky for us, he chose to save it for New York’s eyes and ears. While cherry blossoms bloomed outside, seemingly overnight, Sumney filled the North Hall of the community arts venue with his spellbinding sound, equal parts haunting and captivating.

In front of an entranced, and remarkably well-behaved crowd—perhaps it’s the hypnotic state Sumney’s voice seems to effortlessly carry listeners into—Sumney tested never-before-heard tracks from his forthcoming album. This event follows the August 2024 release of his fifth EP, Sophcore, and several acting gigs including his role as Leon, a movie store clerk and confidante of lead Maxine Minx (Mia Goth) in A24’s MaXXXine, and Izaak, a musician and acolyte of controversial character Tedros (Abel Tesfaye) in the HBO television series The Idol.

In recent years, concerts have been prone to overcrowding and chaos; a sea of sweaty bodies fighting for proximity to the stage. Sumney’s Pioneer Works set was composed, cordial, and at moments, conversational. The North Hall felt like Sumney’s living room and we were all invited guests, friends of Sumney’s, and, by way of him, friends of each other. Perhaps that’s also testament to the exploratory atmosphere Pioneer Works excels at fostering, whether the cultural center is supporting a music show, a book discussion, or independent arts fair–as it’s done for the past five Winters with Press Play. “Our aim is to create a place where artists feel comfortable experimenting with their work,” shared Gabriel Florenz, Artistic Director of Pioneer Works. Between songs, Sumney riffed with the audience, as if messing around in the studio. At one point he asked us what we wanted more of. “Tears!” shouted one audience member. “Sex!” shouted another, just a few feet away. The performance had plenty of room for both, often simultaneously.

After the show, Document sat down with Sumney to discuss his move to New York, and the process behind his upcoming album—from its sonic drivers to his interpersonal inspirations.

Photography by Gabriel Florenz.

Anabel Gullo: You mentioned in the show that you recently made a partial relocation to New York. Can you speak a bit about that?

Moses Sumney: It is true. It’s part of my current lore, I suppose. I’m living half in North Carolina, and half in Brooklyn. I’ve been splitting my time, as of a year now, but have been a lot of the time in New York.

Anabel: How has it been so far?

Moses: It’s expensive. Sometimes I’m like, ‘damn, y’all live like this?’ But as expensive as it is, it is unparalleled in its richness in arts and culture. I appreciate that I get to be inspired constantly by the people and the institutions here. That’s not something I’ve experienced anywhere else in this very specific way. So I’ve enjoyed it. And, socially, most of my friends live here, so it kind of makes sense.

Anabel: Correct me if I’m wrong, but I couldn’t help but catch some New York influence in the sounds of the show.

Moses: You tell me?

Anabel: Maybe it was pure coincidence, but the more pulsating rhythms in some of the songs reminded me of certain beats I associate with nightlife here. Was there any correlation there?

Moses: I think that has to do with engaging in social life, and wanting to engage in social life, but also responding to the times and the music that I’ve mostly been listening to over the past five years. Since the pandemic, I’ve been really into R&B music and really into rhythm, and rhythmic music. At some point I was like: ‘Wait, why wouldn’t I make rhythmic music?’ It’s so much of what I listen to, and I wanted to make music that I like. I have a following that loves my music and they have a really deep and personal connection with it. And I wanted to, for the first time, make music that could connect people to each other. I think that rhythm is the best way to do that, because you get people in a room and they move to the same beat, and I think that’s really beautiful. And yeah, I’ve had a chance to experience that in the time I’ve spent here [in New York].

“As we’ve been making this record, I have wanted to know how the songs would react in real life. They felt like they needed to be exposed to the air in order for me to fully understand them.”

Anabel: I definitely felt that at the Pioneer Works show in the way that you cultivated an interactive space, which was really refreshing. How did it feel to perform in front of such an involved audience in a space like that?

Moses: Well, I’ve never performed there, and I’ve never performed a show like that. In my early days, when I was first coming up in LA, all of the shows I played, in fact, were composed of unreleased music. I got to learn how to engage with an audience without having the precursor of songs that they’re familiar with on my side. I really missed what I learned from the early days of playing. My first album, Aromanticism, I toured for about three years before it came out, because my livelihood was playing shows, and I had to keep going. That helped me make a record that was really focused in a very specific way. As we’ve been making this record, I have wanted to know how the songs would react in real life. They felt like they needed to be exposed to the air in order for me to fully understand them.

I began to feel nostalgic for the days when it was commonplace to play a record for a year before committing to it and I wanted to just steal a little bit of that. So getting to have an audience that was so open, welcoming, gracious, curious and quick was so cool. We’ve been making a lot of this album in Asheville, where my house is, and we had thought of playing this show there or somewhere in the South, but it just felt like, actually, the place where this music would connect the most and where I’ll get the most feedback was New York. So we saved it and waited till we were all back in New York City, and I’m so glad we did, because, I mean, the energy in that room is unlike anything I’ve ever experienced, and the way people understood the music instantly, really, really shocked me.

Anabel: It was, truly. And as an audience member, shows can be so overwhelming.

Moses: Oh my god, I hate going to shows. But I think one of the things that scared me about this show was that if I, or the average audience member, goes to a concert, you have to have things that draw you in. And one of the things that really draws you in is being like ‘I don’t like going to shows, but if there’s a record that I love, well then I’ll go, because I want to hear the songs that I like.’ And so I think the thing that was scary about this was the question of what do they like? They don’t even know if they’re gonna like this music. And so I didn’t know if that would be a draw for people or a repellent.

Anabel: There was a familiarity to the sound that I think connected everyone. And then there was also, like you said, a curiosity that was so cool. We were all sharing the experience of hearing this stuff for the first time. So thank you for saving it for New York.

Moses: Thanks to New York for accepting it.

Anabel: With the themes and tones of your previous music in mind, I think people came to the show looking to feel something. And we did. How do you find music as an outlet or a means of processing grief, or just working through the universal experiences of love and loss?

Moses: That’s a beautiful question. I mean, I think as artists, we are all using our various tools to process what it is to be alive and what it is to live a life as human beings. Especially as human beings who live in communities, so much of our living is relational, and I feel like when I’m alone, I’m either processing what it means to be alone, or I’m processing the time I’ve spent in relation to other people. There are other things to sing about, but those are the things that I’m most drawn to, maybe because they, whether I like it or not, rule over my life in this lifetime. I have found that when I feel the most creatively fulfilled is when I can be the most honest, and for me, in the past few years, I’ve been thinking about what it means to be in-relation.

I’ve oscillated very heavily between isolation and being in “situations” with other people, and sometimes I don’t want to talk about that, but I always want to write about it. I’m like, is this to be shared? I don’t know, but I think it is, because there is nothing I could ever say in a song that is not relatable to another person. And I think the blessing of the job that I do and the platform that I have, or am building, is that I can put into words and emotions, in terms of music and song, what a lot of people are feeling, and hopefully we can find at least some solace in knowing that we’re not totally alone.

Anabel: I’ve seen that even in your acting roles. It’s fascinating how those same sort of translations of feelings to, I guess actions (in the case of acting) happen on screen. How has that experience been similar? Or different?

Moses: Acting has felt really different because I’m not saying words that I wrote and my music practice rotates very heavily around saying words that are my own, of my own experience. But I found that acting was really helpful in a time when I had decided to stop writing music because I was over it, and/or didn’t know what to say. It gave me new tools to access my emotions with an immediacy that I did not previously have. With acting, you’re thrown in. You have to tap into this character, and you have to ask yourself how they feel, and ask yourself how you feel and how to connect those two things. I had never sat down and said, ‘let me conjure up my emotions or my feelings.’ I had only ever been like, ‘I feel something, now I’m gonna go write.’ So that was really helpful. And of course, I would only ever choose to play a character that had, or that I could imbue with, a rich interior life. So it was through acting that I found the similarities. It’s been really helpful to have new tools to call upon my emotions immediately and process them within an art form.

Anabel: Looking ahead, what are you most excited for, with regards to this upcoming album, or otherwise? Summer in New York is exhilarating, I hope you’ll stick around for it!

Moses: This summer is crazy. I will be here, because I’m having my stage debut. I’ll be in Shakespeare in the Park this summer in The Twelfth Night alongside Lupita Nyong’o, Peter Dinklage and Sandra Oh, and it’s completely insane, because I’ve never done theater before, not even in high school. I don’t know who told me to do that, but I definitely must have been feeling bold when I went up for it, so I’m trying to finish my record before then. I feel like I’m overflowing creatively, and also losing my mind a little bit. I’ve only ever done screen acting, so I’m really excited to connect with audiences in person and obviously I love being on stage and sharing that space, so I’m excited to see how it’s different. I think I’ll learn a lot from it.

And I’m excited to make a record that is about connection. I’m excited to be working on a record that is ultimately exploring what it means to be in relation to other people. Playing that show on Monday just made me fall in love with the music in a new way, and also criticize it in a new way. So I’m especially excited to tear it apart and put it back together again and finish it and know that there are at least between four and 800 people who will listen to it.

I hope that artists in the city and around the world feel encouraged to experiment. It’s so beautiful, and we forget that we still can. So I’m just glad to be reminded.