Entering A Vehement Flame feels, at first, intrusive. On view at PALO Gallery in the East Village, the photo exhibition by emerging photographers Lily Burgess and Lauren Massie is an intimate chronicle of the couple in some of the most striking states of human vulnerability conceivable: having sex, crying, naked, wounded, bound in sensual snares of their own making. We’ve invaded their privacy, it seems; we have accidentally unlocked a door that was never meant to be opened. But it’s Lily and Lauren themselves who have handed us the keys, then unabashedly invited us in.

Across the series of 14 blown-up polaroids, passion and pain are interchangeable, love and turmoil indistinguishable—in one photo, Lauren chokes Lily, her face displaying pleasure or agony, we do not know; another depicts a naked Lauren, save for a copy of Arthur Rimbaud’s A Season in Hell covering his genitals. Emotional abrasions manifest physically and vice versa; in a different image, Lily weeps in a fetal position at the bottom of a staircase, while a few frames down, black and blue bruises dot her bare torso.

A centerpiece collage made of mementos, letters, poems, and additional photographs heightens the authenticity of the polaroids. There’s a lock of hair, a bottle cap, an old cigarette box, necklaces, a medicine label, a teeth molding, and a tattered American flag draped off to the side. It’s clear that these items have been used before. They’ve been loved, abused, cherished, worn down, forgotten and then remembered, lost and then found—not unlike Lily and Lauren’s relationship itself. It is through the couple’s camera lens that the fraught nature of love is suddenly, perhaps refreshingly, made clear.

Burgess and Massie sit down with Document to discuss photography as therapy, religious upbringings, the art of the polaroid, and their undying love for each other.

“A lot of the early photos are kind of when we were not in a great place. And I think those are the heavier ones. We thought those were the important ones to show.”

Sofi Cisneros: Let’s start with some personal contextualization. Tell me your stories and your evolutions from childhood to now.

Lily Burgess: I grew up here in the city and my dad and my stepmom are just very free-willed and we don’t hold much back. They gave me a lot of freedom growing here. I’d say that affects my work a lot.

Lauren Massie: I grew up in Alaska. I had kind of the opposite upbringing. I grew up in a super small town and going to church, so I was surrounded by a lot of repression, which is something that I’ve been working really hard to free myself from since leaving. The show is definitely an exercise in putting it all out. In general, I think I’m just interested in things that people like to sweep under the rug.

Sofi: When and how did you guys meet? And how from that point on has your relationship blossomed into this dual artist-muse dynamic we see here in the exhibit here?

Lily: We met through our friend’s band called Catcher. We had known each other online. We were fans of each other’s photos. I already had a crush on him, so I sought him out. And we just started doing photos together a year and a half ago.

Lauren: Same. I became aware of her while she was still living in London and I just thought her work was really cool. But a lot of the cool photos she was posting were of her ex boyfriend, so I didn’t know that there was gonna be anything there. But then right when you got back—we met at the show. We instantly started taking pictures of each other. It was a natural extension of our relationship I think.

Sofi: At what point in the relationship did you realize, We need to show the world these photos?

Lily: Most of these that are on display are the early photos. After we had gotten quite a few of them, we decided to do something with it, but it just kept growing and growing, and it’s still growing now. It wasn’t until we got approached to do something that we thought it was ready, but it’s very much ongoing until we die, probably.

Lauren: It’s a mix of this year and last year. We wanted to have some story of our relationship, it’s not exactly chronological.

Lily: A lot of the early photos are kind of when we were not in a great place. And I think those are the heavier ones. We thought those were the important ones to show.

Sofi: There’s an element of spontaneity within photos, perhaps leveraged by the medium of the Polaroid, which emphasizes the authenticity of your relationship. How do you know when an intimate moment between the two of you necessitates a photo?

Lily: We kind of just have [the camera] next to us at all times. It lives on the bedside table. We take lots of photos of stuff that maybe doesn’t necessitate a photo, but we have to sift through and find the good ones. It’s just in our nature, I think.

Lauren: In general I think we both knew when a moment necessitated a picture. It tended to be the more extreme ones.

Lily: [There’s] a black and white photo of me that was taken while we were breaking up. And it was me crying and he grabbed the camera and took a photo of me.

Lauren: Yeah, we both knew that had to happen. There’s [another] photo that we didn’t use in the show but it’s of the morning I had proposed. It’s funny because it’s almost the exact same picture except she looks elated.

Sofi: There’s a growing discussion about society’s increasing need to put down their smartphone cameras and savor reality instead of looking at life through a lens. But what would you say differentiates your work from the sentiment? And where do you draw the line between reality, like savoring the tender, intimate moments between each other, and photographing each other for the sake of your craft?

Lily: We weren’t taking these photos in anticipation of showing them to anybody. They were just for ourselves. We document each other because it’s all for our own needs, to look back on things and stuff. It was kind of a way for us to process things. So it was never any intention of putting it out to the public or it being for craft, it was more of a therapy.

Lauren: We really weren’t staging things, not necessarily. So it wasn’t like we were losing the moment because of the photo. I think that’s what allows us to hang onto the moment.

Lily: The Polaroid allows for not having to think so much about taking the photos. It’s more of a reflex thing. You just press one button and you have a photo.

Sofi: Raw displays of sex, interpersonal trauma and depictions of emotional and physical wounds that society tells us to keep behind closed doors are on display in the exhibit. What was your intention in publicly showing these themes that the mainstream may deem as taboo?

Lauren: Like I said earlier, I grew up in a pretty repressed place—but it didn’t mean that these things weren’t happening. It just meant that you weren’t allowed to talk about them. And if anything, it makes it worse, allows people to live in denial. They never address the problems that are happening. With the honesty thing, I think we both just wanted to portray how fucked up a relationship can be a while still really loving one another.

Lily: You have to acknowledge things to move on from them. I think this show has been especially therapeutic because we look back on some of the more raw photos and we’re able to realize how far we’ve come from that. If we didn’t, it’s very easy to forget these sorts of things, or think that you’re still in the same place you were now, so it’s good to have a record of looking back and seeing all the progress you’ve made.

Sofi: Was it difficult to come to terms with the fact that dozens, and perhaps hundreds by the time this exhibition ends, will see you guys in such vulnerable states?

Lily: I don’t mind it. I don’t think about things maybe to a fault, but I don’t know. I’m kind of an open book. And I also think we look pretty sexy.

Lauren: I was definitely a little bit trepidatious about it, but ultimately I feel a lot better having put it out there and it’s been received pretty well.

Sofi: Both of you are steadfast in your use of the Polaroid despite there being an abundance of access to crystal clear, hi-def photography nowadays. How do you think this element of obscurity that’s inherent to instant film paradoxically enhances the nature of your relationship as storied in the exhibit?

Lily: I think we enjoyed the instant nature of it, and it being a reflex and not something we had to think about. Also the physicality—that’s why we have the collage as well because I think putting it with writing and different memorabilia provides for a larger context of our relationship.

Sofi: There’s a natural blurriness that’s inherent to the Polaroid itself…

Lily: …like a memory.

Lauren: Like a dream state kind of thing.

Lily: I don’t think we thought about that until after we were reviewing the photos where it has the lack of clarity as we were reliving some things.

Lauren: That is something though that I, in my personal work, have tried to lean into more and more, like really pick those happy accidents. I think a lot of the times when you get super caught up with all the technical aspects—not that you should throw them out the window or anything— the pictures can often lose their humanity. They can get kind of stale. We didn’t want that to happen.

Sofi: It’s almost as if it mirrors the love itself because it’s always going to have some degree of pain or blurriness. What did your selection process look like, not only for the 14 Polaroids displayed on the walls, but for every last memento, letter, poem, or extra few photos in the center piece? Why these specific photos or items?

Lily: For the collage, we collected all the writings and letters we had written each other, photos we had taken of each other that we thought were special, and stuff that was in our rooms that we always looked at every night before bed. We just threw it all in a bag and brought it over here and splattered it on the wall.

Lauren: We tried to make it semi-pleasing. I think with that piece, we also wanted to make it a little bit messier. Some of the writings added a little bit more context to the photos as well. Especially the notes that we had given to each other—those are some of the more intimate things in the show.

“I think it will be interesting to see what our problems look like in 10 years because hopefully they’re different ones.”

Sofi: Several allusions to Christianity are scattered throughout the exhibition, such as the rosary in the centerpiece, the cross above your head in one of the photos, the crucifix next one of the letters. What role does religion play for both of you and your work?

Lily: I think it’s just something that’s naturally a part of our lives. My grandmother was a priest, so I grew up religious and, I don’t know, I think it’s in everything. We didn’t even notice how much it was in this exhibition, then we were like, Fuck, wait.

Lauren: I also grew up going to church. When it’s ingrained in you from such a young age, it’s always there in everything that you do, no matter how hard you try to push it away.

Lily: I forgot this, but when we broke up, I actually went to a retreat at a convent to, like, calm the fuck down. So it’s been there for me when I needed it.

Lauren: And her mom would take me to church too while we were broken up.

Lily: One of my favorite books is Erotism by George Bataille. He talks a lot about how sex and intimacy is a way for us to get closer to God and holiness. I think that that’s maybe a hard thing for some people to grasp. But I think that’s true for us, too.

Sofi: Looking towards the future, would you be willing to continue producing work that is predicated on your relationship and love story? If so, how do you envision yourselves continuing to push the limits of the inherent dialogue between relationship and photography? And if not, then what’s next?

Lily: We plan on doing this for as long as we can. Not even if not to show, I think just for ourselves, we’re still gonna continue to take these photos.

Lauren: That’s always been the intention, like we’ll continue to do our own things and our solo projects, but…

Lily: We’ll always have this to come back to. And I think that we’re never going to not have problems. So I don’t think that we will have any trouble having narratives within our work again. They might just have different aspects and points of view.

Lauren: I think it will be interesting to see what our problems look like in 10 years because hopefully they’re different ones. Like she said, I don’t think we’re ever going to be completely problem-free. I’m curious to see how it evolves.

Lily: I don’t think we ever thought that anyone would be interested in seeing this, or something worth a narrative or showing. So we’re pleasantly surprised that people actually find it interesting because, you know, all art is about people and love. It’s old news.

Lauren: Yeah, like I said, I think everyone already knew that we were already a little fucking crazy.

Lily: And crazy about each other.